sirgodfrey, under the thread Choice or Predestination? kp's post #3 and Swalchy's post #12 provide some decent answers to this topic of "predestination," bitnet also provides some insight a number of times throughout the thread.

Wouldn't Yah's choice be shown in this story by His initial selection of the person as His slave? Maybe I'm just stretching the metaphor too far, but I'm assuming that the slave got to be with the Master in this story because the Master selected him to work for Him.
Yah can certainly choose this guy as His special treasure in these circumstances and, being outside of time, set plans ahead of time for what this person will do after he accepts Him, due his His foreknowledge of how the choice will turn out without this metaphor being wrong.

Excellent passage though. I look forward to the whole thing being posted. I definitely never saw that in Deuteronomy before...

I think a good argument can be made on both sides as far as if they are aware during the time between when they die and when the day of judgment. I personally think that they will be essentially in a state of unconsciousness until the day of judgment.

As far as those that worship the beast, it sounds to me as if they have leagued themselves with the adversary and therefor will be cast into the abyss with the adversary. I think for people at that point the third option is taken away, and it is a choice of heaven or hell. Yahweh has given them everything they need to make the choice, and if they take the mark of the beast then they have made the choice to league with the beast.

I could be wrong, and hope for their sake that I am.

"Colloquially stated, Captain, but essentially correct."

(Mr. Spock to Captain Kirk)

The Heaven or Hell concept was always something couldn't accept because it means you have to love and obey God in order to escape hell which turnes honest love into forced love which in turn equals slavery. So I was really delighted when I read about the three doors concept which seems extemely fair and (unlike the two doors concept) provides free choice.
However, in Future History chapter 29 Ken writes:

"The default is death; we must choose to receive either eternal life or everlasting damnation.
In the context of the Last Days, that fact makes these next two passages really scary. First, "If anyone worships the beast [that is, the Antichrist or the demon who inhabits him] and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." (Revelation 14:9-11) That warning applies to everyone alive on earth during the last half of the Tribulation, when, as you’ll recall, the "mark of the beast" will be instituted as a sign of submission to the Antichrist and his Satanic world government. In order to avoid door number three, people will have to become outlaws, fugitives, rebels against the system. Many will pay for their convictions with their lives--a small price to pay, however, for avoiding eternal torment and gaining everlasting life.
Second, Yahshua explained what will happen to those left alive at the end of the Tribulation. They will be separated as a herdsman separates his sheep from the goats. "And these [the "goats"] will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous [that is, the "sheep"] into eternal life." (Matthew 25:46) Why is this so terrifying? Because He has apparently ruled out non-choice (leading to door number two) as an option for these last hardy survivors. I realize it’s an argument from silence which makes it hard to be dogmatic, but it appears that by the time the King takes His throne, no one on earth will still be sitting on the fence trying to ignore the world of spiritual things. No one will be "merely wicked," marked for destruction. If by this time you haven’t chosen to reciprocate Yahweh’s love, then you will be counted as His enemy, actively engaged in the futile work of Satan."

In other words the 3 doors are only available to those who have died before the Tribulation, right?

According to the timeline provided in the Appendix the beginning of the Tribulation is set for 2026. All those who are currently younger that lets say 70 years will most probably still be alive between 2026 and 2033. In essence for most of todays people door number two won't be available which puts us into the same misery of having eternal salvation or eternal punishment as only choices again.

Am I correct in that assumption?

I'm afraid all the talk and joy about the three doors and free choice is irrelevant for most of the todays folks.

Interesting discussion. Although my opinion doesn't by any stretch settle the matter, the evidence leads me to believe that the three doors (and specifically door #2---dissipation) will still be in operation well into the second half of the Tribulation. But from the Abomination of Desolation (which I believe will occur 30 days before the midpoint, or 1,290 days from the end) onward, it's pretty clear that pressure will be brought to bear to get off the fence. Taking the mark of the beast will certainly consign you to door #3, and sheltering the King's brethren (Israel) in defiance of the Antichrist will admit you to eternity through door #1---even if you don't really know who King Yahshua is! But other than those criteria, it's all a little fuzzy.

The interesting subject---one that I didn't really address in FH---is what happens to the three door theory during the Millennium. Satan and his demons will during this time be locked up in the Abyss, so it would seem door #3 will be eliminated as a choice during the entire Kingdom period. Maybe. Door #1---alignment with Yahshua---is the whole point of the Kingdom age, and it's pretty clear (based on prophecy of widespread temporal blessings) that most people will enjoy a real familial relationship with God during this time---and most everybody else will be pretending to. Overt rebellion will be rare and will be met with immediate consequences. (I have no idea what "door" those consequences will lead to, but I suspect #3, even though Satan is locked up. Can't be dogmatic, though.)

But the end-of-Millennium battle, Magog II (Rev 20:7-9), reveals that multitudes born during the Millennium will have been living under the Messiah's reign in a state of repressed rebellion, not acting on their true feelings, but not forming a relationship with Yahweh's Messiah, either. They won't be "judged" for their errant attitudes however, for then as now, God is not willing that any should perish: Repentance is an option left on the table until the very end. And we can deduce that relatively few will die of natural causes during the Millennium, making the very existence of door #2 during the Millennium more or less a moot point. But since the devil will be released at the end of the kingdom age, Magog II will (like Armageddon) tend to force the populace of earth into one camp or another---indwelled either with Yahweh's Spirit, or with Satan's.

The basic difference between now and then (from the point of view of eternal destinies) is that there will be no "religious victims" during the Millennial Kingdom. Everyone will be aware of the Messiah-King and His role in mankind's redemption---a subject Satan works very hard to suppress today. So the primary reason for the relative mercy of door #2 will have been eliminated from view by the very nature of the age.

Further thoughts, anyone?

kp

I was self-employed for about 10 years before I retired.

There are basically 3 kinds of Employees.

#1 The one who called me boss, obeyed me, loved my business and advanced my "kingdom"

#2 The other called me boss, but only obeyed me for a paycheck and because he feared me I would not fire him.

#3 The other called me boss, but never did anything I said, so I "fired" them

Employee 1 was loved and promoted and loved by my family and in some cases considered family.

Employee 2 was basically just a warm body, whom I would cast out for a Employee 1 type. He stayed in the Kingdom but was the least of my kingdom.

Employee 3 was fired in front of Employee 2 to keep him motivated.

Out of the Hundreds of Employee I went through in 10 years, there was maybe 1-2 number ones, probably 10-15 number 2's, and the rest were fit only to be fired.

Enlightening comparison, Bigrichie. I too was self employed for almost a decade, but for most of that time, I had only one employee, who by your definition, I'd call a #1. The symbolism, of course, puts me, as the employer, in the shoes of God. And that's where it gets interesting. I treated her with respect, gave her every reason to respect me and feel secure in her position, and let her participate (under supervision) in the real work of my profession (in my case, graphic design) so she could learn and grow. But mainly, her job was to represent me before a world of potential clients and resources: she took care of my "business" so I could concentrate on doing what only I could really do---solve problems for people. She was a valuable asset to me, but I was essential to her---without me, there would have been no job. And when I "ascended" to another phase of my career, I felt I could leave the business in her hands. (Is any of this ringing any bells?)

Whether she made a go of it or not depended completely on how well she had paid attention to what I had been doing in her presence for the last six or seven years. Our Master too has left us to take care of His kingdom for a while. Our willingness to learn from Him will make the difference between success and failure, between carrying on in the spirit of Philadelphia or falling into the traps of Sardis and Laodicea.

kp

I just try and put things in a more simple manner that we can understand.

I think alot of times we tend to "over spiritualize" thing instead of just using good old fashion common sense.

After being self-employed and now being retired, I would rather be beaten with a baseball bat then deal with the general public or lazy employees again.

(and yes I wish I could have actually "fired" some of the number 3's hehe)

If I recall, Jesus said those who were not for him were against him. I see no indication of a third choice.

I still have yet to sort out 1) sleep until the resurection, or 2) go to heaven - after physical death

One verse that fit's nicely with 3 doors...and sorry I don't have time to look up and post actual:

In that day many will be raised, some to everlasting life, some to everlasting contempt

Note many - not all, and then those many to door 1 or door 3, with door 2 implied (not all).

I am pretty sure that death is sleep without the dreaming. Knowing nothing and judgment can come in 5 years or 1000 and the sleeping would not know if they had been asleep for 1 second or 1000 years. Time doesnt exist to them. I have not read an accurate translation on this so forgive me but I believe all will reawaken in the end to life or to death and the ones that have been dead will be of the mindset that they were at the time of their death just as a sleeping man wakes with the same views of life and the world that he had when he laid down to rest.